Today's haul & question about heart gem pan

[Steve_Stephens]

It seems that each of the past three monthly flea markets I have been to I find exactly 9 decent pieces to come home with me and so it was this morning...

G 8 do, G 9 Baster, G 8 Baster with early style Patent Appl'd For lid, G 7 do trivet, W No.12 heat rim skillet, W No.9 Skillet Roaster bottom, W 3 skillet, 9-heart gem pan, and W No.1 oval roaster, second version.  Grand total= $339 (from about 4 sellers).   Boy, it sure adds up but these were mostly a bargain and are in very good condition.   No, more like excellent condition.

OK, who bought my No.9 skillet roaster cover a few months back?  I could use it now!  Don't worry, I'm fine without it.

That No.3 Wagner smooth bottom skillet is nothing and I got it for $3.  It was priced at $4 and I asked the seller if he'd take $3.  He said he just sold the smaller one for $3 and I said smaller skillets are worth more than a 3.  I wondered if someone had snatched a No.2 skillet but really don't know if it might have been one of those unmarked and slightly smaller pans or a genuine Wagner No.2.  Anyway, the seller said "so that's why he paid me so fast!" as if he may have realized the buyer got a bargain.  

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Here are the insides of the 9 Baster and the early 8 Baster covers.  Both are slant TM but the bottom for the later 9 Baster has a block TM.  Note the "pinned" trademark on the early cover.  That cover is just like the last of the smooth covers but has all the writing on the top and inside and trademark added.  You don't see this early version much.

Here is the 1920 patent for the dutch oven:
http://tinyurl.com/2lt2a8
The patent was filed on Nov. 25, 1918 so that early Baster was made between that date and Feb. 10, 1920 it would seem.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Here are the bottoms of the two Basters.  Block TM is not common on Basters.  The earliest Baster pots have the ERIE, PA. USA in two straight lines instead of one curved line.  I do see these early bottoms on occasion and, I think, with slightly later covers than came with this pot.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Tops of the two Baster dutch ovens.  Note the profile of the top of the early cover on right as well as the placement of the writing and the style of the handle compared to the earlier No.9 on the left.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Early style Wagner No.1 oval roaster.  This is, I think, the second version.  The earliest one has rounded handles set about 1/2" below the top of the pot.
The No.1 on the cover almost looks like a "7".

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

I think this is my best piece of the day- the heart pan on the left.  I really like the very smooth casting of this one and the cutouts which I don't think I have seen before.  Most of these pans are solid.  On the right is a very old bottom gated heart pan that I've had for a while.  It measures about 1/8" longer overall than the pan on the left which is side gated.  Also, the center bars on the handles don't seem familiar except on 12 cup heart pans which usually have the extra bar.  I am almost certain that the cutout pan I got today is an old one.  The bottom of the cups look like they have been slid into and out of the oven many times.  No flash or rough parts on this pan's casting.  I love it!  Can anyone tell me the maker or if they have or have seen one like it?  Oh, Joel, cometh ye over and lookie please.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Bottoms of the two heart pans.  These pans show up on ebay frequently but most are new reproductions by John Wright and a few other makers.  I know that Marin Stove & Range listed heart gem pans in their catalog in 6, 9, and 12 cup versions.  The 12 cup is shown and is solid with no cutouts so I don't think these may be Martin unless they are earlier maybe than the catalog.

Steve

[C. Perry Rapier]

Steve, it looks like you had a good day indeed. I didn't know there was that much iron in California. I figger that much iron would sink the state another couple feet into the ocean. I like the number 1 Wagner Dutch oven, its an old one for sure. You don't see too many of the number 1's. And there are all kinds of variations in the dutch ovens. I have several of them and have noticed the different variations. One thing I think is strange is that the number 13, the largest one in the whole bunch has the smallest handle, a number 6, the smallest in the bunch as a much larger handle than the number 13, I am talking about the handle on the lid. All these quirks make them interesting.

[Clark Rader]

Steve I have a #1 ww oval roaster, only marked on the bottom (WAGNER SIDNEY O) #1, gate mark on bottom.Cover has single round knob, with no markings. Most interesting part is, it has a wire handle on the roaster that carries very well, empty of course. Is this the one that you are talking about? Is that your new,old, cammera?

[Mark Ritter]

Looks like you had a very good day. I was wondering where all the cast iron was going because I am not finding very much that is worth anything around here. Tomorrow is the big one here and I hope to find something to come home with me but you never know. Do you mind me asking you a question Steve? That #1 Wagner oval roaster, Could you post a picture of the bottom? I have an old Wagner #5 aluminum oval roaster like that with the styled number on the lid. I would just like to see if the logo on the bottoms is the same as yours.

[Steve_Stephens]

Clark, that is my new old camera.  I haven't learned yet how to take crisp photos with it.  

I'm not clear Clark on the wire handle your oval roaster has.  Can you post a photo and one of the knob on the cover?  Maybe what I consider the first and second version of the ovals are really the second and third and yours is the first.  Not much info on the early Wagner pieces.  

The following photos are from my iMac built in camera so the images are backwards.  First, here, is the handle on what I consider the first version Wagner oval roasters.  The covers are the same on first and second versions.  No gate marks on my pans but I think I have had a first version with bottom gate (maybe).

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Mark, get out your glasses and magnifier to see this photo of the bottom markings on my No.1 I got today.  The "1" on the bottom is lower down on the pot and all markings are faint.  "WAGNER"
                               SIDNEY
                                  O.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Here is the handle on the second version Wagner oval roaster pots.  This one happens to be a No.2 and is marked only SIDNEY,

You can see where the "WAGNER" above the Sidney has been "erased".  This pot is probably from the Wagner owned Sidney Hollow Ware Co.  In the c.1908 catalog reprint that WAGS did they show the first version handle.  Interestingly enough the oval roasters were made in nine sizes, 1-9, in these older versions and maybe even in later versions.  Quite a stack a full set would make.  I much prefer the simple looks and style of these early Wagner oval roasters to Griswold's ovals and sold my full set of the full writing Griswolds but have 4-5 of these early Wagners.

Steve

[Mark Ritter]

Thanks alot Steve . Aluminum markings are different. Here is what I have on this pan if you are interested at all. Here is a couple of pictures in return for your time and effort. Thanks again!!!

[Mark Ritter]

#2

[Steve_Stephens]

Here is a couple of pictures in return for your time and effort. Thanks again!!!

My time is worth nothing; my effort is effortless...
That's cause I'm having fun!

That's an interesting pot Mark.  It looks like the WARE was slipped (squeezed) into the space between WAGNER and SIDNEY.  I can't say it there is an iron version with your exactly MARKings.  Why is it that Wagner used different handles on the covers of their aluminum and iron dutch ovens?  Does your handle look to have been applied after casting or is it part of the casting?

So, Wagner became "ware" and then "gear" and now their neigther here nor there.  But they've left behind some very nice pieces.

Steve

[Mark Ritter]

I believe it was put on after the casting. Heres another picture of the inside of the cover.

[Steve_Stephens]

It looks like the handle has downward protrusions or pins that are put though small holes in the cover then peened and ground smooth.

Steve

[Clark Rader]

This is #1 ww oval roaster, note wire handle and knob on cover. clark

[Steve_Stephens]

Oh, a regular bail.  Clark, can you post a photo of the center half of the underside of the cover?  I'm wondering if a regular handle on top of the cover may have been removed.  If it ever had such a handle there should be two very small tits under where the handle would have been.  Is it the cover, too, that has a gate mark?

Steve