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Author Topic: Sidney Skillet  (Read 21760 times)

Steve_Stephens

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2007, 12:14:27 AM »
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Steve underneath the Wagner is there any sign of a ghost mark, or smudge where Sidney might have been?
Dwayne, no ghost or smudge on these two top pans.  They should be original pattern for Wagner and their first and second series possibly and made before Wagner  started to put SIDNEY on their pans I think.  There would be no reason for Wagner to make a pattern WITH Sidney on it and they obliterate it and just leave Wagner.

I think any pan marked WAGNER SIDNEY is from the Wagner foundry.  Any pan marked only SIDNEY is likely from the old Sidney Hollow Ware Co. foundry after Wagner bought it.  Seems like Wagner provided the patterns for their new "extra" foundry in Sidney, O and, in many cases, probably sent over their old patterns and had the name WAGNER "smudged" out.

It looks like Dwayne, Ed and I and some others are carrying on a conversation both here and on Donna's site about the same subject-
http://www.flashnthepan.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=2board;action=display;num=1189038490
It's sure nice to be able to easily post photos here.

Steve
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 12:17:16 AM by Steve_Stephens »
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2007, 12:15:17 AM »
I don't have that reprint, I will have to get it now. I was wondering who came first, with this design, Sidney or Wagner, now I see ERIE on a Sidney skillet with the same reinforcing pad?? I am confused. Here's a question: according to the blue book; Sidney started making Hollow ware around 1886; Wagner started making hollow ware around 1891; Wagner bought Sidney 1897; 1903 Sidney sold back to original owner, Phillip Smith. Did Sidney continue making Sidney hollow ware after this or what happened to it?

That is just so strange that my Wagner pan has a Sidney ghost mark below it.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 12:16:41 AM by ddaa99 »
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Steve_Stephens

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2007, 12:20:48 AM »
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according to the blue book; Sidney started making Hollow ware around 1886; Wagner started making hollow ware around 1891; Wagner bought Sidney 1897; 1903 Sidney sold back to original owner, Phillip Smith. Did Sidney continue making Sidney hollow ware after this or what happened to it?
I am as stumped as you are Dwayne about what the blue book says regarding dates.  If the SHW plant was sold back to Phillip Smith was it HE who was making the SIDNEY pieces for Wagner.  Maybe Dave Smith could give better info.  As it is I can't justify my thoughts and ideas with the dates in the blue book.  My catalog reprint is, I'm almost certain, 1908 and the products in the catalog are Wagner pieces probably marked only SIDNEY.

Griswold is easy to figure out compared to Wagner and Sidney.

Steve
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2007, 12:25:02 AM »
Hey Thanks Steve, for all your patience, and information. I'll have to do some checking on this and find that reprint. I bet alot of people will be looking at those old "Wagner" skillets closer. I'll be curious to see if anyone else has a Wagner with a Sidney ghost on it.
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Offline Ed Allspaugh

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2007, 12:33:07 AM »
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Does your Wagner have a Sidney ghost mark as well?

  Have not seen Sidney ghost on any of my Wagners yet. Just dug out a "
WAGNER" 11 like you picture and a 12"WAGNER" arc skillet. Need to weed thru these skillets to see what I'm taking to York.
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2007, 12:45:48 AM »
Let me know if you find one. Mine was faint, never saw it until you had me looking for grind marks and that smudge and ghost showed up under the brighter light I was using.
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2007, 10:15:08 PM »
Thought I'd add my #7, no ghost marks here.
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Steve_Stephens

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2007, 12:48:08 AM »
Thought I'd add my #7, no ghost marks here.

Is the "7" here a tiny bit fancier than on yours Dwayne?  Could this pan be older?  Is yours older?  Both these pans have the reinforcing pad?  Mine does and is nickel plated.

Steve
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 12:49:56 AM by Steve_Stephens »
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2007, 05:52:47 PM »
I wrote Dave Smith and he was nice enough to email back. I don't think he'd mind me posting it. Steve that is a nice pan. Do all of your bock Wagner's have a reinforcing pad? Mine do.

Dwayne: As far we can figure the Script Sidney mark was done by the Sidney Holloware Co. When Wagner bought the hollow ware plant from Philip Smith the Sidney mark became block letters. It is probable that Wagner patterns were modified for the Sidney mark, consequently the Wagner ghost which was formed from filling in the Wagner mark. The filling material shrank slightly or became worn leaving the ghost mark in the skillet. The block WAGNER mark was the earliest mark Wagner used. It did appear on different locations on the bottom of the skillets. Again, and as typical of Griswold  also, patterns overlapped in production use so pinning the absolute dates of the marks down is next to impossible.  The Sidney catalog reprint offered by WAGS is very enlightening as to the production of items from the Sidney Hollow Ware plant. This catalog answered many questions. When the plant was sold back to Philip Smith the production of cookware ceased as Philip Smith was then producing farm machinery such as grain elevators and other similar items. I hope this answers some of your questions  
 -Dave
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 05:54:39 PM by ddaa99 »
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Steve_Stephens

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2007, 08:38:28 PM »
That still leaves the question of how the Sidney plant was sold back to Phillip Smith in 1903 yet the SIDNEY catalog is c.1908.  Could those pieces have been made in the Wagner foundry?  I never considered that.

Yes, all my old Wagners have the handle reinforcement.  That's a feature I especially love about the early Wagners and early Eries.

Steve
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Offline Ed Allspaugh

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2007, 07:08:49 PM »
Found the eight I have. Can see the quote marks to the right, and theres a very faint "E" that I can't get to show in the pic.
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Offline Ed Allspaugh

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2007, 07:11:33 PM »
Few styles of script also. These two differ and they differ from the pix in the blue book.
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2007, 07:45:53 PM »
Here's an arched Sidney I have, but no ghost marks I can find.
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2007, 07:48:16 PM »
All the old Wagner's I have are the arched "Wagner".  I looked them over but didn't see any ghost marks I could find.  I did notice the handles were different on some and some had the reinforcement pad like Steve's, but some were different.  I guess there were different series just like with the ERIE skillets.
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Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2007, 07:48:39 PM »
the back side
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2007, 07:59:51 PM »
Nice photos of Skillets. What an education, thanks for posting.  Was looking around the web for info on Sidney and came a cross this page. Keep going down, it shows a skillet that says Wapak, with ghosts of Erie, and Wagner.

http://www.flashnthepan.com/Wapakoneta.htm
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Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2007, 08:27:29 PM »
I read that Dwayne. The writer keeps saying molds but means patterns, big big difference.
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Offline Dwayne Henson

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2007, 09:34:05 PM »
Your absolutely correct Perry, you use patterns to make molds. The skillet is interesting though.
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Offline Mark Ritter

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2007, 10:54:15 PM »
Steve, I have a #8 Wagner like the one you posted (straight marked) but with a large letter C under the Wagner mark. Is this common?
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Steve_Stephens

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Re: Sidney Skillet
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2007, 10:55:51 PM »
Note that Roger's No.12 Wagner skillet has the early style "scoop handle" that was used by Griswold on their first series.  Favorite also used the same handle and also without reinforcing pad.  Could these companies have used obsolete Erie patterns after Griswold was through with them?  Or did the same pattern maker travel from foudry to foundry making similiar patterns?

Note that the scrips Sidney marked pans are probably the earliest of the Sidney Hollow Ware Co. skillets/markings and that was before Wagner was involved in buying or owning Sidney Hollow Ware.  Same with the block marked SIDNEY HOLLOW WARE CO. pans which probably followed the script Sidney markings.  All before owned by Wagner.

Steve
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