Thanks Will for that extra photo. Talked to Mr. Jones last night and I didn't get much in the way of a date. It is before the DESI machines. I need to place a call to M.r Mooreman again, being a salesman he might remember more. I've been trying to get some general dates to date BS&R items. Not much luck thus far. Will, On your ashtray, BS&R used that style for advertising themself's and other businesses. I was told that the pattern was just the plain flat rimmed ashtray, and then the letters would be added to the rim. They were held in place with wax. Steve's was post DESI, the plain ashtray pattern would be modified with a disk that had letters, logos, ect. on it.