Selden & Griswold dutch oven??

[Steve_Stephens]

This thread takes off and modifys the thread I asked on Sidney Hollow Ware dutch oven here-
http://www.griswoldandwagner.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1123392885

I am now thinking the dutch oven I thought was Sidney Hollow Ware may be very early Griswold (ERIE) if not Selden & Griswold.

Two early, nearly identical dutch ovens in one month and both from California.  I just received an early ERIE No.9 do with no pattern number and pot handles like I have never noticed before on any ERIE do.  This is the pot I showed a photo of in the other thread but will add it and more here.

Both dutch ovens are IDENTICAL except that the one marked ERIE has a center bar in the handles where a bail could be (but wasn't) attached and the handles are just over 1/8" higher on the sides of the pot.  The other pot is the one I don't want to scrape or clean the bottom to check for a name and has the open handles without the cross bar.  The covers for the two do's are IDENTICAL down to the style and placement of the "9" and also the handles.  Note the rather wide part of the cover outside of the rim that fits down into the pot.  This is not typical of ERIE do's I have seen.

Has anyone seen or does anyone have an ERIE do WITHOUT pattern numbers?  I recall a very early No.8 ERIE do at one of the conventions that had a knob handle but don't remember other details.  Also, I don't recall seeing an ERIE No.9 do with flat top before.  They are all of a later style.

I am wondering if I have stumbled onto a rare and very early pair of Griswold and/or Selden & Griswold do's.  The pot without the cross bar on the handles I would suspect is earlier.  I'll be bringing these two do's to the convention.  Their casting quality and detail of the handles is superb.  One pot from the lacal flea market and one from ebay and it arrived packed super well as I had requested and without damage.  I was worried on this one.

Steve

[Steve_Stephens]

Top of pot and lid

[Steve_Stephens]

bottom of pot and last photo

[Will Person]

Steve,  there is an old Erie #9 DO flat top in an antiques store near me.   I don't know if it has a pattern number,  but I am pretty sure it has a bail.   I think they want $40.00 for it.   I haven't bought it because they...............sandblasted it :'(   She is rough because of it.   I will see if I can get pictures of it this weekend.


Will Person Jr.

[Steve_Stephens]

That would be great if you could Will.  Get some photos of the pot's handles, too.  In the early days (Griswold 1890-91 catalog) their do's were offered with or without handles (bails).
Steve

[Roger Barfield]

Steve, when you mentioned the width of the outer part of the lid, is that because the walls of the dutch oven are thicker on the one you have, or does the lid extend over the sides.  I've never noticed that before.

[John Knapp]

I saw one of these DO's with the flap top and handles like in Steve's picture.  Marked ERIE also.  I don't know if the lid was marked as I didnt look under it.
Larry Foxx has it.

[Steve_Stephens]

The cover hangs over the side of the pot at least 3/16" on each do.  Very finely cast pots, they both have the reinforced top rim like the early
ERIE skillets do.  Wish Larry Foxx was on here to see this thread.  

Steve

PS  I just spoke to Sue Foxx and, sure enough, she has a marked "ERIE" do just like mine but without the center bar in the handle so that shows that Griswold did make the ERIE do's without center bar and that mine may be such a piece.  Now all I have to do is to scrape the bottom to find out.

Now I would like to locate the earliest ERIE or Griswold dutch oven and would like to know if the early style like the No.9 was made in size 8 or 10 which are the only other size Griswold dutch ovens in the 1890-91 catalog.  Is there a marked Selden & Griswold dutch oven??