Waffle Iron w/ High Base

[garlin]

Can someone tell me how they used a High Base Waffle Iron. Surely, they did not use it like I use it by filling it with hot briquettes;did they????

[Steve_Stephens]

Wow, that's a different way to use the iron Howard.  I'd like to see yours in operation.   Does it work well?  

High frames were made for gas and vapor stoves.  I would guess to get the irons up higher away from the fire or to make it easier to turn the irons.  The low frames seem to be needed on coal and wood ranges to keep the irons close to the fire.   Others here find they like low frames on gas or electric stoves and I have used them too.  But I prefer the high frames on my electric coil stove.  I just sit the iron on frame over the burner, turn it on high.  When the irons just begin to smoke I pour in my batter, flip the irons and cook until done which is about a minute.  Takes another minute or two to reheat before pouring in more batter.  Oh, the briquets must make a mess of your stovetop.

Steve

[garlin]

Who uses a stovetop? That is not to smart. When cooking on an electric stove I use a low base # 7 iron, it fits the burner better. I use a # 8 high base when the family camping. With hot briquettes you can put out a Waffle every 4 minutes. I use Pam and keep the iron hot. I have tried two iron at the same time and it works well.  For our family 8 adults and 12 children it takes about an hour to feed using one iron. You have to keep refreshing the briquettes. Try it, it works.


Howard   ;D

[moosejaw]

Great advice, Howard.  It does work.....but sometimes I laugh when sellers advertise the high base irons as "one you put charcoal under."  The high base irons weren't invented for use with charcoal, but necessity is the mother of invention.  They are great for camping.  

[garlin]

Steve thank you, now lets explore
The concept of a gas stove putting out flames high enough to heat a waffle iron setting on a high base is flying right over my head. The stove efficiency, I would think, would have to be poor. The hottest part of a gas flame is a it's base, so the closer to the flame the better.
A vapor stove I have no idea as to how it would work under a high base, unless this was the chamber in which the ignition took place, I would think that would have been dangerous. I have been around a kerosene cooking stoves as a kid, is this type of stove referred to as a vapor stove. I need to do some reading into the development of the gas and vapor stoves to see what the early concepts were. If you can recommend a book or website would be helpful.


Howard   ???

[C. B. Williams]

Howard: I have used a high base waffle iron on my gas cooktop. I will admit that the heating time is a bit slower than a low base, but only by a few seconds, I have not actually timed it.  It seems the base works kinda like a flue, funneling the heat up to the iron. I assure you, that on a gas cooktop it will get hot, in fact it gets too hot if left on high for too long. C B

[garlin]

C B
The higher up the flame the cooler the fire.
Would it be smart to just set the gas lower putting out less heat using less gas by using a low base waffle iron. That the way it look to me using the gas stove we have today. Early gas stove concepts may not have been as they are in today's world. I think that is what I'm missing on this topic. Or we know that the market is not always driven by logic and it may have been a marketing thing.  At this time I can not see why Griswold and others put out a high base waffle iron. I think that it may be like the story for the openings in the heat rings on some manufactory's skillets. That is "to keep new heat coming in under the skillet" I don't by that either.  But some do.


Howard :o

[C. B. Williams]

Howard: I agree with your logic on the high base irons. However it does work. I don't think early gas stoves had any different concepts than the stoves or cooktops of today. You can't change much when you have only a burner and a grate.

[garlin]

C.B:
I would agree that there is not, to a large degree, a concepts changed in gas stove. Oh yes, they have made the air venturi's, if I can call it that, control valve, regulators, of the gas stove more efficiency but that concepts still is what it is. Now why make a high base Waffle Iron?
Do you have an answer. I don't.

Thank You
Howard

[Steve_Stephens]

Many (most, all?) earlier gas stoves had burners where the flames shot straight up while many (most?) gas stoves of today (not counting the commercial types that Greg is getting a loan to buy) have burners where the flames shoot out mostly to the sides.  I hope I am right on this as I don't use a gas stove.  Anyway, the side shooters will tend to heat the sides of the frame more than the up-shooters which direct the flames towards the iron.  The only differences between a high and low frame used on a gas stove is the amount of heat lost through the sides of the frame.  The higher frame will radiate and lose more heat but not by a large amount since the cast iron conducts heat so slowly.  If the high and low frame irons had perfectly insulated frames there would be  no difference in temperatures between the high and low waffle irons since all heat from the burner would have to go through the waffle irons to escape from the waffle iron.  There are going to be some differences between high and low but I don't think they will be very noticeable.  Vapor stoves were kerosene and gasoline and worked much like gas stoves.  Don't forget the extra ease in which the high waffle irons are flipped over.  Could be that people were so used to flipping a waffle iron over when used over a wood or coal fire that Griswold made the high frame so it would still be easy to flip without raising the handles way up in the air and straining ones shoulder and arm muscles.

Steve

[C. B. Williams]

I understand Howard's question and I also see Steve's points. I wonder which came first. The high or low base? I have not had any problems turning either. I think the reason for the "side shooters" that Steve mentioned is more even heat distribution, or not directing the flame directly at the bottom of a pot. My gas cooktop has "daisy" burners which is a cluster of 6 half dollar size burners and gives very even heat. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a recording of the Griswold's discussing how high to make the base and the reasoning.

[garlin]

Steve
Thank you. Some of what you write explants and is a good justification for a High Base Waffle Iron. I'll be thinking on what you have written this weekend, and will have my faculty of reasoning for you sometime at the first of the week. You know there may have been a reason for the high base waffle iron but thought time we have missed placed it. I don't think we have them to stop the straining of ones shoulder and arm, may  the wrist.


Howard

[Steve_Stephens]

Just kidding about straining the shoulder and arm Howard.  C.B., the low frames came out well before the high frames.  First Griswold high frame around the mid-1890's I'd guess with the first ones having a patent date or two around 1892 on the side handle of the frame.  That's a hard one to find and has the finger/slot joint on the irons.
Steve

[Harry Riva]

Was one of the reasons for the high base that the vapor fuels or the natural gas at that time burned too hot and the users had to get the waffle irons up and away from the heat? It seemed like there were a lot of flame tamers and heat regulators being made to get the food being cooked away from the flame? Is the design of the vapor griddles meant to keep the cooking surface away from the direct flame because it was too intense? I would also think the ease of flipping the high base irons when they were on a burner instead of in a stove eye was a big plus for the high base irons. If it's not distance from the flame and/or ease of use then I give up.
Harry

[garlin]

 ??? ??? ??? :-/

To all that responded to my question and for myself to come to a logical and a faculty of reasoning for a Waffle Iron w/ High Base.
This is a crude test as to why a manufacture would make a High Base
Room Temp: 68 degrees
Stove: Elect
Burner: 5 coils 71/2 inch diameter. Both bases fit basically the same over this burner.
Heat setting: #8 Med High, Max heat output about 305 +0 -3 degrees. Time to reach max Temp 7 minute and 45 sec. Checked at a point of the center coil. Point of contact about 1/64 of inch.
   Time difference of heating high and low base?
Test the start time with the above conditions with irons and bases at room temp. Both Griswold #8, Low base and High base. The Iron #8 Griswold, the same Iron was used in both test only the bases changed. The temp is taken across the diameter of the iron. This is a average of the full face of the iron.    
       Checking the time to raise Waffle Iron to a temp of 250 degrees across the center of the irons. The irons in the closed to cook position. Time required:
                              Low base: 5 minutes and 31:64 of a sec.
                              High base: 9 minutes and 22.88 of a sec.
       
   Temperature conversations or recover differences between high and low base?
After cooking the waffle the Iron conversation or recover time  back to the 250 degrees starting point. Temp taken in the closed position with a thin meat thermometer.
I cooked 4 waffles each,  the High base took an average of  4 sec to convert back to the 250 degrees starting point  Were as the low base was so instant that I could not get a good time measurement but it looks like just less then 1 sec. this is after each finished Waffle. Time to cook 1.500 minutes each side 3 minutes total. They all were editable.   Ha Ha Ha

   To what degree of effort, comfort and move ability is there to use a high base over a low base?
I answered this question by just using the two bases in the above test. My conclusion is that the High Base is an effortless, very comfortable and is highly moveable Waffle Iron to use. I will try compared it to a Low base.
High Base:
Effortless: 1.When open very stable, 2. flipping the iron is very easy, 3.when moving the hot base and iron it is effortless when using the wire bail.
Comfort: Handles is up and out of some of the heat but I did use a HOT PAD, Even though it took 3 sec longer to recover  to the cooking temp, the iron did not hurry me to get the cooking job done. Which to me is a plus!
Move ability:  As flipping iron, moving hot base, handles out of heat.  Now the storage of the high base is that it takes up the space of it's size anyway you store it.. You can set the Iron side ways in the base to take up less space(horizontally due to the handles) not so with the low base.
Low Base:
Effortless: My way of thinking it is poor or no comparison to the high base.
Comfort: My way of thinking it is poor or no comparison to the high base.
Moveably: Only that the high base takes up more room to store.

Summery: There are three more question that I must answer before I have a total "understanding" as to why the manufactures made a High Base Waffle Iron (1) Can a "Vapor" stove have an effect on the Waffle iron operation efficiency with a high base compared to a low base and when compared to using gas stove? (2) Was the "Vapor" and Gas Stoves designed inadequate to allow for proper air and gas mixture which created a High Hot flame thus the need for the high base? (3) On the gas stove: are the gas jets placed so they heat to the side or up, if so what efficiency difference is there to make for a need for the high base?
At this time I think that it was a marketing improvement to manufactory the high base Waffle Iron. From all of the counts this would be a logical move for a improvement in the Waffle Iron and a great selling point for it to the housewife.


Thank you for your time and thoughts

Howard ;D

[Steve_Stephens]

Howard,
I don't understand your "time to recover" or reheat the irons after removing a waffle.   4 sec. for the high base and almost instant for the low base.  My experience is that it takes at least a minute on the high base for the temp. of the iron to reheat to the point where I pour in the batter.  It's only the lower iron that I am interested in reheating to reload the iron.  What was the upper iron when the last waffle was removed will stay the upper iron until after I pour in the batter and flip the irons.  It sounds like you are pouring in your batter and then cooking for a minute and a half  on the side you poured the batter on before you flip and cook another minute and a half for the second side.  I flip right away since I have let the lower iron reheat to quite a high temp.  Once flipped the high temp. will continue cooking that side of the iron while the second side reheats and cooks that side of the waffle.  

All I can say is that you and Joel Schiff should get together and write a book on waffle irons.

Steve

[C. B. Williams]

Steve: Thanks for those dates on the high and low base irons. Now, I wonder what improvement they thought they were making. Maybe they did for the verticle flame gas stoves.

[Steve_Stephens]

The first high frame Griswold irons were in the early? 1890's but the low frames were always made from start to end.  Griswold's last iron was the hammered one with only a low frame.  And that was made mostly for gas and electric stove use.  I think it was the easy of turning the waffle that was the reason for the high frame more than any other reason.

Steve

[garlin]

Steve:
The waffle cooking procedure
Preheat iron in the closed position to 250 degrees
Turn bottom  up now the upper is down
Open and spray with Pam, pour on batter
Cook for 11/2 minuets
Turn Iron
Cook for 11/2 minuets
Turn iron open and immediately remove waffle
Here is where I checked for temperature rise back to 250 degrees. This is were I took the timing. The time is as follows that it took the High base to rich 250 degrees after cooking the waffle. 1) 4.99 sec 2)3.79 sec 3) 3.53 sec and 4) 3.60 sec average 3.975 sec.  
I hope that this helps to understand how the testing was done. All I'm saying is this is what it came out under the testing that I did.
If there is a book to be written we could do more testing. I know of a good lab that could do it in Washington D.C  Anyway all I'm trying to do here is to answer for myself as to why, Griswold made a High Base Waffle Iron with some outside input and I do thank those that bring up new questions to think about and to answer.
Howard :o

[Steve_Stephens]

Howard,
There is more than one way to remove the skin from the waffle .  I do it differently than you do which is not to say that either way is the optimal way.  I peal my waffle from one side around to the other while you seem to peel it from top to bottom.  Once the skin is removed it's ready to eat and the eating time and taste should be approximately the same.  I am thinking that the temperature I start with on the iron (side that I pour batter onto) is a lot higher than what you do.  That's why there is more than one way to skin a waffle.

I was just reading Griswold's instructions for baking waffles and realized that I do things differently than they suggest which is to thoroughly heat iron, pour batter in, close and cook on that side then flip and cook on the other side.  I pour batter and immediately flip to cook the "other" side while the first side continues cooking from the high heat of the first iron side.  Get that?  I learned by trial and error over 30 years ago and without benefit of any instructions.

My instructions are from the early 20's and the card says "Made for Gas, Gasolene, Oil, Coal, and Electric Stoves".

"For a dressing, Butter, Syrup, Honey, Pulverized Sugar, Jelly, or Meat Gravies are recommended".    I would never have thought of using meat gravies.

Steve