Author Topic: Made a new Electrolysis setup  (Read 3281 times)

Offline Scott Ryan

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Made a new Electrolysis setup
« on: September 18, 2015, 04:45:25 PM »
This isn't pretty but really didn't cost much at all, and compared to my first attempt this thing is putting out billions more bubbles than the old one. 

It's a SS half keg cut in half. I plan on getting a roughneck garbage can to put it in to do larger items. Right now I have a #10 griddle in it and there's plenty of room for that.

Ignore the old battery and charger on the side, those were old experiments.


Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2015, 05:44:15 PM »

Sounds like you are "cookin"!  away...  :) :)

New and improved for sure! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Offline Jim Fuchs

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2015, 08:32:55 PM »
Good idea there Scott. Looks like you're well on your way!  :)

Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 10:45:57 AM »
The amazing thing is my old way was working. Funny how you think something is fine until you make it better. This should clear up my backlog quicker.


Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 05:01:05 PM »
Does anyone know how safe these are long term? I know with the lye bath I sometimes don't get to a piece for a couple days to a week and they are fine. What timeframe would I need to be concerned about with the elctro setup?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 05:46:41 PM »
Some of my pieces are in the lye bath for months, and months.... :)

If the electro is operating properly and depending on the amount of rust, anywhere from 4 to 12 hours... normally...

Once in a while I need to go longer...

I always shut down the electro when I go to bed, and am not monitoring regularly. 

I pull the piece from the electro (out of the solution), and then re hang once I am awake...


Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 10:42:26 AM »
Thanks, I guess better safe than sorry. I was wondering since it seems to make tons of bubbles even though the pieces look really good.

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 11:22:14 AM »

You can't determine if a piece is "done" by the bubbles.. :) :)

The bubbles tell you the process is working well, and will continue to bubble, even after all of the rust is removed.  :) :)

After working with the iron over time, you will develop the 'eye' for assessing if a piece needs more time in the electro.

There are times that some black patches remain, and I suspect that not all the rust has been converted underneath the top layer of  'black'.... back in the electro it goes... :) :)

Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 09:02:23 AM »
Yes, this is a process. I thought I could get away with a couple hours. My first few are taking, 1,2,3 days. It really surprised considering the volume of bubblistics going on. The whole tank ends up bubbly.

Then again I have not put anything normal in yet. I'm working 4 pieces I got for $10 that were rust city. The guy even looked at me funny when I agreed to $10 for all 4. The first two look real nice though.

Offline Russell Ware

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 01:03:26 PM »
Quote
My first few are taking, 1,2,3 days.

Scott, do you know how many amps your setup is pulling? You'll get bubbles even at 5amps, but if you want to decrease your time, you need to be consistently pulling 15 to 20amps. Some people run 30amps.
If I am using re-bar to clean the inside of a piece, it takes much longer to get the work done. The single piece of re-bar doesn't pull as much current as my larger electro setup. Even in my larger setup, big pieces draw more amps.

Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2015, 08:48:54 AM »
Quote

Scott, do you know how many amps your setup is pulling? You'll get bubbles even at 5amps, but if you want to decrease your time, you need to be consistently pulling 15 to 20amps. Some people run 30amps.
If I am using re-bar to clean the inside of a piece, it takes much longer to get the work done. The single piece of re-bar doesn't pull as much current as my larger electro setup. Even in my larger setup, big pieces draw more amps.
Other than the meter on the charger (which I was told is not the best indicator). Well, other than that I'm not sure how to tell how many amps. The meter seems to be around 6ish, but it is set on 20.

This is an example of the first 5 I've used it on. http://i.imgur.com/jQhJhM6.jpg. Not sure why I keep tossing those in when I have a number of "easy" ones that I've been waiting to drop in.

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 10:25:36 AM »
Scott,

For some background information on electrolytic conversion of rust, you can read the article I wrote for The Casting Call, Volume 10 Number 3.

As Russell implied, it is the current that is important because it is a measure of how many electrons are being transferred to the rust and it is the electrons that do the "work" for us.  The current flow is dependent on several things.

1.  Voltage - the higher the voltage, the higher the "pressure" pushing the electrons through the electrolyte solution.
2.  Electrolyte concentration - more ions in solution generally means less resistance for the flow of electrons.
3.  Geometry - bigger anodes and cathodes will conduct more current, as does moving the pieces closer together.
4.  Electrolyte - some ions make more conductive solutions than others
5.  Temperature - conductivity increases with temperature

A note about bubbles
Bubbles can remove crusty, old seasoning or rust scales by physically forcing the material off the piece that you are cleaning.  The evolution of bubbles has nothing to do with converting iron from the ferric oxidation state (Fe+3, the red rust) to the ferrous state (Fe+2, the black rust that washes off).  Electrolytic conversion will occur at less than the voltage required to split water molecules.  Bubbles form because the voltage we typically use (12 volts) is high enough to also split water into hydrogen and oxygen, hence the bubbles.  This is an inefficiency in the process because after the bubbles physically remove crud on the pan, the current that goes into making the bubbles is not doing anything to further clean the pan.
Hold still rabbit so I can dunk you in this bucket of lye!

Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 11:54:31 AM »
Quote
Scott,

For some background information on electrolytic conversion of rust, you can read the article I wrote for The Casting Call, Volume 10 Number 3.
Thanks, I'll check that out.

Quote
1.  Voltage - the higher the voltage, the higher the "pressure" pushing the electrons through the electrolyte solution.
2.  Electrolyte concentration - more ions in solution generally means less resistance for the flow of electrons.
3.  Geometry - bigger anodes and cathodes will conduct more current, as does moving the pieces closer together.
4.  Electrolyte - some ions make more conductive solutions than others
5.  Temperature - conductivity increases with temperature

Well, I have a decent charger and my anodes really wrap around well. Plus I was surprised when I noticed the water is kind of warm.

So, would you try putting in a little more Super Washing Soda?? If i remember right I put in about 1 cup and I think it's about 17 gal.

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 12:10:46 PM »
I think you have plenty of washing soda.  With your keg configuration, lots of bubbles and the water getting warm, you have a good current flow and I think it is probably working well.

One thing to keep in mind is that once the rust is no longer red (ferric) and has turned black (ferrous) electro probably won't do a lot more.  Take out your piece and scrub it with a chore boy and assess your progress.  You could put it back in for a while to see if it gets any cleaner.  It shouldn't take days to get a piece pretty clean.  My experience is that a few hours gets probably 98 percent of the junk off a pan.

One other point I will mention.  When you aren't running the power, you can leave the piece you're cleaning in the electrolyte solution.  The high pH from the sodium carbonate will "passivate" the iron and keep it from rusting.  In theory, you can leave the charger connected because the diodes should prevent reverse current flow, which could cause your pan to slowly corrode.  But to be on the safe side, I always disconnect the negative lead when the charger is not running.
Hold still rabbit so I can dunk you in this bucket of lye!

Offline Scott Ryan

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Re: Made a new Electrolysis setup
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 04:48:48 PM »
Quote
I think you have plenty of washing soda.

Thanks for your input.