Author Topic: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye  (Read 5708 times)

Offline Guy Charles

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Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« on: May 16, 2014, 10:54:37 PM »
Ok WAGsters, Cheryl Watson and I were discussing this earlier today. 

Curious to know what others have experienced with the tech grade lye and food grade lye.  Do you like one better than the other, if so.....why?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 05:55:40 PM by guyacharles »

Offline Guy Charles

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 10:10:30 PM »
Check 1 2 3....check....is this thing on? :-?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 10:22:32 PM »
Yes... it's on!!

It's also a weekend, and I am sure that many are out 'hunting'... (except me... <sniff>....)

Let's hope some others tune in sooon!   :) and offer an opinion....

Offline Trevor Lawrence

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 12:30:00 AM »
My vote goes for tech grade! Seems like i had a lot more rust with the food grade.

Offline Guy Charles

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 12:37:39 AM »
LOL Cheryl..... I haven't got to do much hunting lately.  Wife is about to pop! Our first is due anytime in the next few weeks.  Honey do's got me busy :-/

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 01:22:00 AM »
LOL... you goin' ta be busy for the next EIGHTEEN years or more..!!! ;D ;D

Trevor has the same observation as I do!!   That funny rusty gunk covering, that WILL scrub off, but... requires more elbow grease than when I used Tech Grade (which is getting very hard to find!)

I will be using up the rest of my Food Grade very soon (this week), and then I'll start stocking some Tech Grade... even if it's Rooto or Roebic...

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 11:41:54 AM »
The terms "food grade" and "technical grade" are pretty vague.  I checked PPG's caustic soda tech sheets and all of their products are what you might interpret as being food grade.  PPG's literature suggests that all NaOH is "Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) which means that it can be used in food processing.  Several manufacturers products are registered with NSF and can be used in water supplies for pH adjustment and corrosion control.

It is more accurate to describe NaOH according to its manufacturing process or a specification prepared by the manufacturer.  I have looked at a handful of the specs and I really doubt that the manufacturing process that was employed or the specification of the product make any difference to us.  You have to remember that we are soaking a pieces of nasty cast iron in a solution that is extremely contaminated with cooking residue.  A small trace of something else that originates in the manufacturing process just isn't going to be present in your lye bath in a concentration that makes any difference.

If you are seeing some sort of difference, my guess is that it is from differences in the pieces you are cleaning.  Other differences might result from something you have introduced (for example, chlorides from tap water) or something that was added to your source of lye (what else does Roebic put in their drain cleaner?).
Hold still rabbit so I can dunk you in this bucket of lye!

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2014, 12:30:18 PM »
My first shipments when I began using a lye bath, were all Tech Grade sodium hydroxide, which came from AAA Chemical (which no longer sells either).

Then I switched to Food Grade from Essential Depot, due to cost factors.... and this is when the 'difference' was seen, in the increase of what I will call 'washable' oxidation.   This difference has persisted.
 
My newest shipment was from AAA Chemical (last year),,,, I ordered TECH grade, but received FOOD grade... bummer. The same observations have continued.

I will be using most of that remaining shipment up thru out the next few weeks. 

When I need to reorder, I will probably go and buy enough Rooto or Roebic, to mix one bath, just to see if there is any improvement or observable differences.....

Water supply is public water system thruout.



« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 12:31:04 PM by lillyc »

Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2014, 01:53:11 PM »
Just wondering..I've read here that you can leave a piece in the lye bath for extended periods without it rusting at all. So what's the scoop? The grade of lye?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 02:18:44 PM »
That is what is puzzling to Trevor and I, and possibly others....

If I had never used the tech grade, and noticed the difference,,,,, I probably would have accepted what I was seeing as 'normal'.

The 'rust'like sludge on the pieces does wash off with elbow grease... just a bit more scrubbing involved.

It's as though the seasoning lifts from surface but leaves a 'rusty'grease sludge film, that is thicker and harder to scrub than the gray/brown/black film that remained on the piece when using the tech grade....

the film using tech grade either sheeted off easily, or scrubbed off more easily... as though it was more liquified...
 :-?

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 10:20:07 PM »
You can leave a piece of cast iron in the lye bath for a long period of time because the high pH passivates ferrous metals.  It doesn't have to be sodium hydroxide, either.  Any alkaline material will do it as long as the pH is high enough.  If iron is passivated, that means that it cannot participate in an oxidation reaction, even if oxygen is dissolved into the lye solution.  So, if your lye bath pH is high enough (and with sodium hydroxide, it should be) your iron will not rust and the source of the "rusty grease sludge film" isn't your pan unless there is a major contaminant in the lye you are using or you lye bath is shot.  If you use a lye bath, you need to keep in mind that the sodium hydroxide reacts with the grease to form soap.  If you clean enough pans, all of the lye will be consumed by this reaction.

If you are having problems with lye, you need to contact your supplier and get the spec sheet on what you are buying.  Unless you know what is in Rooto, Roebic, and AAA's "food grade" lye, you can run a lot of trials, but what are you going to learn?  If you are going to take the time to run trials, consider this scenario.  Suppose Skillet A is cleaned in Lye Bath No. 1 and Skillet B is cleaned in Lye Bath No. 2.  If Skillet A shows the rusty grease sludge film and Skillet B does not, the experiment did not prove that Lye Bath No. 1 has any more to do with the film that Skillet A does.
Hold still rabbit so I can dunk you in this bucket of lye!

Offline Tom Neitzel

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2014, 11:53:05 PM »
You might even want to consider trying the old time lye - Potassium Hydroxide.  The stuff that came from wood ashes.

i bought some last year and like it.  It is in a flake form and dissolves really quick and easy.  Cleans fast.  I even used the old batch to clean the valve train parts on the engine I rebuilt last year.  Did it in minutes.  Changed it of course before cleaning more cookware.

Tom

Offline Mark Zizzi

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 05:46:37 AM »
Where did you buy the Potassium Hydroxide, Tom, and how much per gallon would you need?

Offline Tom Neitzel

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 08:47:48 AM »
Quote
Where did you buy the Potassium Hydroxide, Tom, and how much per gallon would you need?

The Essential Depot, just like where some get the sodium hydroxide (NaOH).  It's a bit more expensive, right now they sell 10 lbs of KOH for $44, NaOH for $36.  Free shipping.  If you buy from them look carefully at the listing as free shipping is not normally included.

Same concentration as with NaOH.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 08:48:59 AM by tomnn2000 »

Offline Guy Charles

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 11:44:13 PM »
With the potassium hydroxide, can you leave the iron in infinite like the sodium hydroxide?

Offline Tom Neitzel

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2014, 08:22:12 AM »
Works the same for me  :)

Offline Guy Charles

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2014, 11:01:34 AM »
Is the mixing ratio the same? 1lb/5gal water?

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2014, 05:03:25 PM »
The formula weight of NaOH is 40 grams per mole.  The formula weight of KOH is 56 grams per mole because potassium is 16 grams per mole more than sodium.

Now, divide 56 by 40 and the result is 1.40.  So you multiply the mass of NaOH you use by 1.40 to get the mass of KOH.

Unless you can get it at a significant price below caustic soda, I see no reason to use it.
Hold still rabbit so I can dunk you in this bucket of lye!

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2014, 05:13:57 PM »
English Version pleeezzz....

Because the way I am processing the above.... is

Potassium Hydroxide has heavier (more weight) than Sodium Hydroxide, and therefore would require LESS of the Potassium Hydroxide when mixing to achieve the same ratios.......??  :-/
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 05:14:31 PM by lillyc »

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Tech Grade Lye vs. Food Grade Lye
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 05:23:26 PM »
Quote
The formula weight of NaOH is 40 grams per mole.  The formula weight of KOH is 56 grams per mole because potassium is 16 grams per mole more than sodium.

Now, divide 56 by 40 and the result is 1.40.  So you multiply the mass of NaOH you use by 1.40 to get the mass of KOH.

Unless you can get it at a significant price below caustic soda, I see no reason to use it.

Wouldn't you divide 40 by 56?  = .715  to determine the difference in ratio?  Thereby for every 1 lb. of NaOH  you would use .72 lbs of KOH?
2 lbs or NaOH = 1.43 lbs of KOH ??