Author Topic: How do I know when they've soaked long enough in t  (Read 9421 times)

Offline Carolyn Shlafer

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How do I know when they've soaked long enough in t
« on: September 27, 2007, 05:59:38 PM »
Hello!  I am currently using the lye bath technique to clean a few pieces I bought on eBay. (There are 2 mini-sized corn stick pans, 3 full-sized ones, and 2 square egg skillets.) They varied in degree of "gunked-upness" when purchased. I put all of them in a lye bath of approximately 16 oz. lye to 3 1/2 gallons of water, and they've been there for a week and a half. I removed the cleanest-looking of the bunch, then rinsed and scrubbed it a bit to see how it was coming along. I didn't scrub the whole thing, since I wasn't sure if it was "done" being stripped in the lye yet. Although clean looking, with metal clearly showing through, it still has a distinct brownish cast on the scrubbed surfaces. I don't know (1) what I'm aiming for (like-new, even, silvery-grey color, or not?) and (2) how to tell when the piece has had enough time in the lye.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 06:46:54 PM »
Hello Carolyn, your lye strength sounds fine. As for me, just leave them in for at least 10 days, they only get cleaner. If you have a piece with a heavy build up, just take it out and scrub some of it off, your're helping the lye out a little here, and then put it back in. The lye strips the piece down to its original color which is a kind of pale grey lookin color. Of course it won't take off rust, but it will take the gunk off quite nicely. One thing about it, you can't leave a piece in too long. So if you are not satisfied with what you see after about 10 days, leave it in longer. After removing from the lye, rinse it off, then I wash my pieces in hot soapy water and dawn dishwashing liquid using a stainless steel chore boy, it does a wonderful job, once you do this it is down to what I call being naked, it is as it was the day it was made. At this point it is very vulnerable to rust so you gotta do something with it, either season it if you are going to use it, or put some kind of oil on it to keep it from rusting, I use mineral oil, makes it shine and it looks good. If you are not going to use it and opt for the mineral oil, warm the piece up real good first and then put the mineral oil on, it goes on ever so nicely and it actually darkens it a tad, it won't darken it, if you don't heat it first though, Then if you decide you want to use the piece to cook in, wash the mineral oil off using hot soapy water and dawn again, and then season it and you are good to go. Sorry to be so wordy.

Offline Carolyn Shlafer

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 07:28:53 PM »
Perry, I really appreciate the tips about the lye bath.  The cleanest of my pieces are NOT "pale gray" in color at this point -- more of a metallic light brown!  I will definitely continue the vigil until the pans get to that "new" color after washing, then follow your advice on the cleaning, drying, and seasoning process.  I'm trying to tame my impatience in getting to that point...

Once I get there, I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for your help!

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 08:23:31 PM »
Carolyn, I am smiling while reading your post. The first time I made a lye bath I think I checked at LEAST twice a day. Now I just put them in and forget about them, whenever I get around to them, I got some pieces in the lye that I know have been there for at the very least a month. Sometimes six months if I just wanted to keep them from rusting anymore until I could get to them to clean them.

maloney108

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2007, 09:24:13 AM »
Carolyn,

First things first,  Welcome to WAGS!  

That brownish color might be natural to the metal due to use, or more likely, it is a fine film of rust.  You can remove this, as Perry said, with some elbow grease, but don't use SOS or other steel wool product and don't use strong abrasives like comet - these things can leave permanent scratches.  I like the white or blue 3M pads that are meant for glass/ceramic cooktops.  A copper chore-boy will leave copper on the iron (voice of eperience here!)

An alternate treatment for more rusty pieces is a vinegar bath - about two cups for 5 gallons of water does well.  Vinegar will eventually eat away and etch iron, but this is a very slow process.  You can leave a piece in the bath overnight with no ill effects. I accidently left a piece in for three days and noticed it felt a little rough.  Clean again with soapy water and repeat if necessary to get rid of the rust.

Now here is a trick I figured out - for your final rinse, use COLD water.  As it dries, a hot pan will grow a film of rust right before your eyes!  A cold pan can be dried thoroughly without regenerating rust.  The reason is that heat accelerates chemical reactions and rusting is a chemical reaction.

Another fact about rust is that a dry raw iron surface will not rust below 65% humidity, so our friends on the left coast rarely have to worry about this, but we poor devils on the right coast must do battle with rust - at least in the warmer months.

As Perry said, read the seasoning section and give it a try - remember that less is more when using Crisco or other fat to season.  I learned the hard way by not removing most of the fat before it went back in the oven.  I got to practice my stripping and cleaning on more than a few skillets before I paid attention and got it right.

Have fun and keep posting!

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2007, 10:06:45 AM »
Very good advise in this thread!

I took me a long time to get a decent effective method for cleaning cast iron. Searching google will result in many many different opinions, and some seem to be from people who have never done it before! But after finding this site I was able to straighten myself out.

I believe your mettalic brown to be surface rust that was hiding under the seasoning. Almost every old pan I have soaked in lye comes out like that. But it is not hard to remove.

First I rinse it off with the hose, then srub with a cheap green scrubby pad. Keep going until very little brown is still coming off when you scrub. After that I dry with an old towel. Make sure the towel is old, I have a few nice bath towels that now have rust stains on them  >:(

Then they go into the kitchen sink for the next step. This is where I remove any small spots of remaining seasoning and rust. Avoid copper chore boys, as said above they do leave copper on the iron and you iron will dry to a nice dingy green hue (another peice of bad advise I got from google). I now use the stainless steel alternative. I forget the name, but they look just like a copper chore boy, but made of stainless steel. With the SS scrubber I use Barkeepers friend. Does a good job of eating away the rust. Now these SS scrubbers will scratch the iron, but not much. Actually the only place it has ever noticibly scratched was in the bottom of the pan, and that was more like swirl marks. And even those didnt show through after 1 coat of criso seasoning.

Then rinse rinse rinse. Cold water as said to reduce flash rusting. But dont worry about a little flash rust, just gets locked in the first coat of seasoning.

Good luck!

Offline Carolyn Shlafer

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2007, 11:37:31 PM »
Thanks so much for your posts.

I'm leaning toward your theory of "a fine film of rust", Jim.  Today I removed a square egg skillet and one of the miniature corn-stick pans from the lye bath and tried scrubbing them using various methods.  (Dawn solution, abrasive cleanser, steel detail brushes,etc.)  I did see more metal emerge with the scrubbing, but the corn-stick pan had a definite yellowish-orange-red tinge to it, which made me think: RUST!!  So I goofed  around with vinegar, both straight and diluted with water,  to see if it changed the color of the metal, and, voila!  It did.  But on the corn-stick pan, the discoloration never really went away, so I put that one back into the lye for now.

Another problem for me is how to tell what I'm looking at with those infernal corn-stick pans.  My problem is that the little corn-kernel depressions seem to be contaminated by something, but I can't tell if it's carbonized food or rust.  The color of those little indentations seems to shift with whatever treatment I'm using at the time:  Sometimes they're brown, sometimes off-white, sometimes rusty colored.  I've been brushing and brushing those little spots using fine steel wire brushes, and they are still not coming up a clean, silvery-gray  color...

In short, I'm lost!  I have no idea how to get my corn-stick pans totally clean - or even how to know WHEN they are clean!.  I look forward to any insights you or others here may be able to provide.

Thanks in advance!

Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2007, 01:21:37 AM »
Carolyn, I used to use lye and still do on occasion.  I've seen what you are talking about.  I think its surface rust.  I use a soft stainless steel brush on my drill to polish the pieces and remove what you are talking about.  I only use soft stainless and don't bear down on it too hard and it gets the job done without scratching the iron.  

As far as the corn stick pan, sometimes you will have a piece that has been cleaned in a fire.  It will impart an orange kind of look to the metal.  The only way to remove it is with electro.  Many collectors stay away from pieces that have been cleaned this way.  That may or may not be the case with your pan.  

I clean pieces until they have the grey look of cast iron.   You may not always be able to get them perfect.  Once cleaned, I heat the bare cast iron to 450 for about 30 minutes or so.  I then will season them with solid Crisco.  

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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Offline Duke Gilleland

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2007, 05:44:33 AM »
Have seen pieces that were "fired" and could not get that orange color out even with electro.. Consider corn cob molds the HARDEST to clean. probably why you see so many used ones for sale at flea/junk sales. :-/
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fatfutures

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2007, 09:14:01 AM »
This might be a situation where a Dremel could be your new BEST friend. It might not get ALL that funk but, I'll bet you can get a LOT. Dremel has a stainless brush that looks like a tiny paint brush. Would work well for this...

One question guys.... does seasoning seal that stuff in? Will seasoning make is useable?

maloney108

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2007, 09:14:28 AM »
Quote

  My problem is that the little corn-kernel depressions seem to be contaminated by something, but I can't tell if it's carbonized food or rust.  

Carolyn,

One way to make sure if it's carbonized food is to run it through a self cleaning oven cycle.  This will get rid of any food residue.  It won't remove rust, but in my experience seems to make rust softer and easier to remove.

The discoloration could very well be from 'firing', like Duke and Roger mention.  If it's still there after the self cleaning oven and a vinegar dip, it's not going away, so go ahead and season it and use it.  It'll work fine.

Offline Carolyn Shlafer

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2007, 12:12:45 PM »
Wow!  What a treasure trove of cast-iron wisdom you have provided!  I have a few more questions for you, though:

(1) My do-it-yourself ignorance is showing here, but...  Roger mentioned using a brush on his drill, so I'm assuming the Dremel Michelle mentioned is a drill of some sort, to which one can attach either drill bits or wire brushes?  Can you recommend a specific model, and recommend where to purchase one?  Are the wire brush attachments such as the ones Roger and Michelle described readily available?  (Thank you, thank you, thank you!)
(2) I am not familiar with the stainless steel chore boy scrubbers, except that they sound similar to the old metal "Kurly Kate" scrubbers my mom used to use for scrubbing pots and pans.  I've not seen these in the supermarkets around here; any ideas where I might find them?
(3) I got my little egg skillet down to a pretty even gray color, then used this website's methods for drying, heating and seasoning. The only difference is that I used lard (I use it in pie crust recipes) instead of Crisco.  (Dried in oven at 350 for 10 minutes; heated to 400 for 30 minutes; partially cooled and thin layer of lard applied; heated to 450 and allowed to cool in oven; repeated with lard and reheating and cooling.)  Looks slick and clean, just not black -- but dark brown.  Am I doing something wrong, or is it just a matter of time before I achieve the deep black of the classic seasoned pan?

If the discoloration of the corn-cob pan is due to fire, sounds like I can use it anyway once cleaned and seasoned.  However, I am a perfectionist, as well as curious, so I may just keep trying to get to the bottom of what's going on with this piece.  In the meantime, I have several other corn stick pans, and as Duke points out, they seem to be ubiquitous.  EBay always seems to have scads of them, so eventually I should be able to get a few to the coveted "grey look of cast iron" Roger talks about.  My ultimate goal is to have a set of perfectly seasoned and usable corn stick pans:  2-4 mini pans (at least one each of the Wagner "Tea Size" and the Griswold "Corn or Bread" size) and 2 full sized ones (one "Krusty Korn Kobs" and one "Crispy Corn Stick").  At this pace it'll be a while till I get to this point!

Sorry for yet another long post, and thanks again for all your input.  Your help is invaluable!

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 12:47:35 PM »
Hello Carolyn, you sure are a windy gal, I love it.  :)

A dremil is a little tool with a set of attachments, say you was gonna buff a bumble bees butt, use a dremil. Any hardware store will have them I would think, or anyplace that sells hardware. They usually come with various attachments. If you want to see one, go to google and just put in the word dremil.

The SS chore boy you should be able to get at a hardware store too, if not, find a place that sells industrial and janitorial supplies.

Think of seasoning like sun tanning. Each time it gets darker. If you get it seasoned and it ain't as dark as you'd like it, just use it and it'll get dark on its own.

Are we havin fun yet?  :)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 12:50:00 PM by butcher »

Offline Harry Riva

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2007, 12:54:49 PM »
Carolyn, Dremel is the brand name for a rotary tool, like a small drill but MUCH faster. They are six or eight inches long and have a speed control on the side that goes from about 5000 rpm to 25000 or 30000 rpm. You can find them in a Home Depot, Lowes, Sears, etc.. You can also look on e-bay and which may be where the best prices are. There is a link at the bottom of this reply that will take you to a dremel auction on E-Bay where you can see what one looks like. You will see a ton of these on e-bay if you do a search under ROTARY TOOLS. They have a quick change set up for switching attachments and take a multitude of small drills, cutting discs, wire brushes, etc.. The brushes can get expensive and you can go thru them pretty quick and little wire braids will fly every where so make sure you wear safety glasses and try to do your work outside or at least away from carpet or furniture that will hold the wire braids that fly off. I started buyng my brushes from E-Bay and they seem to work fine for the price. There are other brands of rotary tools besides Dremel which will work just fine. I'm still using a Craftsman from Sears that is at least 10 years old. Cordless models are handy but I don't know if they are as good as the corded models for the long haul. Cleaning nooks and crannys in cast iron aside, the Dremel is one of the most verstile tools you can have for around the house. Chore boys are like Curly Kates, just be sure they are stainless or plastic. Copper is a no no as it will burnish the cast iron. Good luck.
Harry
http://cgi.ebay.com/DREMEL-MODEL-300-VARIABLE-SPEED-ROTARY-TOOL-W-CASE_W0QQitemZ170155926153QQihZ007QQcategoryZ29528QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Offline Roger Barfield

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2007, 01:13:37 PM »
Carolyn, be careful as it sounds like you have caught the bug.  There is no cure except to get more iron. ;D  I get my chore boys at the grocery store.  Like Harry said, just don't use the copper ones, or brass brushes for that matter as it can affect the color of the iron you use it clean.  Here is a photo of the drill attachment I use, they sell them at home depot, lowes, etc.  Just be sure and wear safety glasses.  There was a fellow on here one time talking about how the little metal pieces got in his eyes and contacts.....ouch.  
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 01:14:32 PM by rogbarfield »
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fatfutures

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2007, 01:44:17 PM »
This is where I buy my dremel attachments: http://stores.ebay.com/D-AND-G-TOOL-COMPANY_DREMEL-RELATED-ITEMS_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm

You can get a 1 inch flat wire brush in stainless for $8! That's for 12 pieces! Compare that the the 3-4 bucks ea they cost at HD!

One word of warning though, do not buy the stainless steel wire bruch cups from this seller. They spin out flat in the first few seconds of use and start throwing wires almost immediately. He doesn't have any listed right now. He might have stopped selling them... I know I told him about the poro quality.

Also, while he doesn't have any listed right now, he also carries the straight brushes I mentioned before. THey would be awesome for getting into the kernels of a corn stick pan.

Offline Mike Bohannon

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2007, 02:06:43 PM »
Carolyn, both Wagner and Griswold made 3 sizes of the corn stick pans.  If you're going to get 2 sizes you just as well complete the sets  and get the 3rd one.  Completing sets is a good excuse to buy more iron. :)  Mike

maloney108

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2007, 03:16:02 PM »
Carolyn,

IMHO, a Dremel tool is kinda like waxing your car with a toothbrush. (I won't mention Perry's bumble bee analogy   ;D ).  It's really like your Dentist's drill in size and speed.  I use a setup like Roger's, in a full size drill, only I use the cup shaped brushes.  Any hardware store should have several sizes and the smallest one worked fine on my corn stick pan.  Make sure to get soft steel brushes.  They are the 'regular' kind.  There are some 'hardened' steel ones that will scratch cast iron.  They usually say 'hardened', since it makes them special ($$$).

Like everybody else is telling you, wear eye protection!  Another safety practice is to 'run in' a new brush.  Just put it in the drill, hold it away from you and anything else (like in a large trash barrel) and run the drill (both dorections please) at full speed for a minute or two.  This way any loose wires will fly out safely and if it's a faulty brush, you'll know it without safety issues.  I had one fall apart with wires going everywhere - real scary few moments, but this practice (Thanks, Dad) saved me from any real danger.

By the way, lard was probably used on all the old skillets before the fat police made it a four letter word.

It sounds like you're having fun, so keep on posting.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 03:17:29 PM by maloney108 »

fatfutures

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2007, 04:30:25 PM »
Jim, I also use a cordless with a cup shaped brush. Nothing beats it on skillets and dutch ovens.

But, I DO recommend the Dremel for small tight places. Kinda hard to get into the bottom of a corn stick pan with a big ol wire brush. And, it doesn't get into the individual kernals very well, if at all.

You say you have a small one you used on a corn stick pan? How small is it? I've never found one small enough to clean the "detail" as well as I'd like.

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: How do I know when they've soaked long enough
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2007, 04:37:25 PM »
The dremels are very good about getting into the nooks and crannies of waffle irons. They are a pain. Early on I swore off I would not go that route. BUT, then I thought, "well that one is pretty nice, and I ain't got any at all". And then it went to well, "one is a lonely number" and now I got waffle irons. Michelle, have you cleaned any waffle irons with a  dremel?