Do gate marks help determine age

[Valerie Johnson]

I occasionally come across pieces that have gate marks and I often wondered if having a gate mark helps determine an apx age, I have a 6 muffin turk head pan that has no manufacturer name but it does have gate marks on the 2 center muffins. I have seen quite a few of these pans and I always assumed they were fairly recently made, Anyone have any thoughts on this. Here is the pan and some muffins...I like muffins ;D

[Mark Zizzi]

Hi Valerie, It's been my understanding that bottom gated pieces are usually older, like around 1900 or before. I'm no expert on these gem pans..but there are plenty of collectors  here that are...someone more knowledgeable will come along.  Nice looking muffins.  ;)

[Valerie Johnson]

Thanks Mark,. It was my understanding that gate marked pieces were generally pre 1900, The reason I ask though was because these little unmarked Turk head pans are so common I thought maybe someone was still making them as they seem to be everywhere.

[Dwayne Henson]

Yes and no. Typically gate marks show that the piece is older 1880ish or earlier, but not always. As in life there are exceptions. Spiders for instance, were made up to the 1950's and at least one foundry, Glascock for example, had gate marks on theirs throughout that time. Another example is recast items. This is were an original item is used as a pattern, a mold is made and then poured through the bottom leaving a gate mark. The last examples are larger items, like wash and sugar kettles. Being so large they were hand molded and typically were cast from the bottom, sometimes with multiple gate marks.

[Mark Zizzi]

Again, I'm no expert, but I have seen quite a few examples of recast pieces, and you can *usually* tell. Yours is not obvious one way or the other..to my eye anyway. There were so many smaller foundries in those days, some pieces just can't be traced if unmarked.  :-/ 

[Tom Neitzel]

One thing I watch for regarding gate marks is their size and quality.  The heavy, clunky marks like you see on you pan, in my mind, tend to be recasts.  Maybe shop projects.  The folks making the old pieces wanted the gating to break off easy and clean so they didn't risk breaking the piece or have much cleanup to do.

I would expect old gate marks to be thin and relatively clean.   If the gate mark seems to fit the overall quality of the piece, then it is likely good.

Look at yours.  Overall, it is not a terrible casting, but the gate is just so ugly it doesn't seem to belong.

Just my thoughts.

Tom

[Susan Salsburg]

One thing I've noticed: the gate marks on gem or muffin pans tend to be heavier than on skillets or DOs. Something to do with the way the mold has to be constructed? Sue