ERIE 10 top marked muffin pan-real?

[chipotledoggie]

I'm looking for muffin pans, and found thi son ebay. Pg. 163 of the red book lists this top-marked pan, but shows it as aluminum. I don't have the Hausser (sp?) muffin book, and so cannot check, but something about this pan doesn't look right to me. For one, it doesn't have the dots under the No. 10. Also, for some reason the casting doesn't look the same. I am new, so my eyes are not really trained. Am I seeing things? Is this really a Griswold pan? Should I expect to find these variations that are not in the red and blue books? I guess I need to buy the Hausser...Thanks for the help. carla

http://cgi.ebay.com/Griswold-No-10-Var-5-Popover-Pan-n-Wagner-Ware-Wapak_W0QQitemZ6252362069QQcategoryZ976QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Steve_Stephens]

That's probably a genuine Griswold piece.  Not the best of castings but that's typical of some of Griswold's castings.  You don't see the ERIE popovers too often but they aren't worth that much either in my opinion.  This pan could be a copy by another foundry from an original Griswold pan but that's not too likely.  Would have to compare it with a known good one to tell.

Steve

[chipotledoggie]

Thanks. I do a lot of baking, and have been converting to cast iron. I've noticed that a lot of pans in antique stores that I see are unmarked, or have only a letter or number, yet they are shaped just like some of the griswold or wagner pans I see on ebay. Are these likely to be foreign knock-offs (most of them look pretty old?), or just other foundries? The casting on many of them seems to be just as good, or even better, than the casting on the only griswold I have so far, the #10, 948 model. They will likely all cook the same, once they're seasoned, but since I'll hang them on a wall, I'd love to find some excellent examples of fine craftmanship...

[Steve_Stephens]

Carla,
Many of the popover pans you are seeing are ones made in the Wagner foundry from modified Griswold patterns after Wagner and Griswold came under the same ownership at the end of 1957.  While some are quite nicely made they sure aren't as nice visually as the real thing.  Old Wagner popover pans are marked with a "B" on the bottom; some of the later ones may be marked with Wagner's name and/or catalog number.  Wagner did make a lot of muffin type pans and some very nice ones.  If a pan is marked "Made in USA" it is almost always post c.1960 production and has little collector value.  By then, too, the quality of castings started going downhill for the most part.  Take your time and find some good, older pans whether marked or not.  The older ones just have a more interesting look to them I think.  I don't think you are seeing any foreign copies of American muffin pans as they are few and far between if at all.  Griswold did not always turn out superb castings as you can see by that ERIE No.10 on ebay.  You will probably find a lot more variety and often at better prices for baking pans on ebay.  Just don't bid early; bid in the last 30 seconds to help keep the price down but you do have to bid your maximum bid to have a better chance of winning and not just up the bid by one increment.  If you have any questions about specific pans (like on ebay) just post on WAGS and we'll try to answer your questions.

Steve

[Tom Neitzel]

Steve's comments are dead on.  I can't resist though, here is a link to my favorite popover pan (I use 4 of them to make lots of popovers).

http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHN-WRIGHT-POPOVER-PAN-LIONS-AND-LAMBS_W0QQitemZ6253671409QQcategoryZ976QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It was made by the John Wright Foundry, an old 19th century foundry in Wrightsville, PA, www.jwright.com  still in business.  It's cast iron made in 1994.  They quit making them in about 1996.  Sell for around $20-$30.

The are very finely detailed.  Each popover will have a very clear lion or lamb head on it.  Looks nice on display too.

tom

[chipotledoggie]

Thanks, Steve. I really appreciate all your help. I've had some decent luck on eBay, but also have made some errors, despite questioning the seller. It helps enormously to have a forum like this with people like you willing to share knowledge and experience. BTW - I popped my WAGS membership application in the mail today, and am really looking forward to being able to access the information on the "dark" side of the forum!

[chipotledoggie]

Tom, I've been curious about the Wright foundry, and whether it manufactures off-shore. Most of the stuff I see seems new, but every now and then I see an old-looking pan. Once I'm an official WAGS member, will there be info about the Wright foundry available to me? carla

[Tom Neitzel]

Wright is an old foundry that makes high quality castings.  They had the patterns for Hubley and Book Of Knowledge and made very high quality reproductions using the original patterns.  They also made high quality mechanical and still bank repros (all marked).  They pretty well offshored most items after 1997 but still make most bakeware at their foundry.  Most US production is industrial castings now.  They are careful to mark the US made items as made in USA.  Anything marked about 1995 and older is US made.  Lots of neat stuff in the 40's through 70's.  Some really cool figural cast iron bottle openers in the 40's and 50's.  Some in the $300-$400 price range.

Tom

[chipotledoggie]

Thanks Tom. For some reason, I thought I had read somewhere that Lodge was the only remaining US foundry still manufacturing on the continent...

Also, on the previous topic. I was actually looking at that ERIE 10 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6254234001&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1. I'm feeling really obtuse right now, but what is it about the casting of that pan doesn't look quality to you? Thanks so much for your expertise...

addition: also, I'm looking at tese muffin pans. They're different from what I've seen, and the casting looks good, at least to my unschooled eye...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6253660517&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6253460025&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6254022496&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4349205241&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Tom Neitzel]

I don't collect skillets but I'm always happy to comment.  This one doesn't look that bad.  Something has caused a bit of discoloration in the center of the bottom, but the casting overall looks nice and smooth.  Be sure to ask if there are any cracks.  Compare this with the popover pan in your first post.  Se how grainy and bumpy the casting is compared to the skillet?  That's where Steve's comment about not being one of the best examples comes from.  

Tom

I don't fault Lodge with their statement.  The Wright production is pretty small and pretty much in a niche market compared to the larger, general distrubution of Lodge.  You can look on the Wright website and see.      

[chipotledoggie]

And I'm always happy to receive commentary! BTW - I had a d-uh moment. I guess I have that ERIE 10 skillet on my brain, b/c that's where I went when Steve referred to the quality of the #10 muffin pan. [smiley=blink.gif]  And yes, I did notice how grainy the casting was on that pan - it was one reason I thought it might be a fake...Thanks AGAIN!!

[Steve_Stephens]

Carla, those are all very nice gem pans you are looking at.  The first one is one of the nicest of the Waterman and R&E series of pans and has quite clear writing which is unusual.  Grab it if it is in your range of $$.  The last one is an older Wagner.  The No.24 pan was made by Griswold (most likely) and they often go for more than they should be worth but will be a nice casting.  The Wagner T is a biggie and can be had in the half size style U when they turn up which is not often.

I think the ERIE 10 skillet may have an upbow on the cooking surface which is the surface that flatness matters.  Looks fairly small upwarp but the seller does indicate some uneveness to the cooking surface.  These old ERIE's crack from the top rim down right at the edge of the handle and the edge where the reinforcing handle pad is.  Maybe 25 or more % of these pans have hairline cracks in them and some of the cracks are very small and hard to see.

It looks like you have a good "I" for iron.  Glad to have you added to our WAGS roster.  Can you explain all your names?

Steve

[chipotledoggie]

Thanks Steve,
I wrote to the seller and it does sound like the pan has some uneveness to it. I'll hold out for a good one - maybe one with the older reinforced handle and  top rim! ...As for all the names - I started posting here, and a week ago I changed my last name to match my husband's. Since I have sent off my WAGS membership application, I wanted there to be some consitency...I'll remove the extra names in a couple of days...And I do like the waterman pan, but since I don't know how high it will go, we'll have to see if I actually acquire it! Thanks again for the help. carla