Author Topic: Have You Heard Of This?  (Read 8825 times)

Jcas

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Have You Heard Of This?
« on: June 27, 2008, 04:12:08 AM »
I have obtained 2 skillets, they are in not too bad condition, but i haven't had a chance to clean them up yet.
I am anxious to know a bit about them. They are marked on one side with Holcroft 10, and on the other side is patend numbers and info which is unreadable now, but may be when i clean them up.

I have googled and can't find much about them, is anybody familiar with this cast iron, it has a lovely smooth feel.
The 2 are identical and i picked them up at our local second chance shop.


Offline Will Person

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2008, 07:32:19 AM »
Welcome.   I do not see that name in our foundries list.   Could you post a picture of it.

Thanks.


Will 8-)

Jcas

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2008, 11:02:48 PM »
Thanks for the reply Will. As you will see by the pics, these look to me like they were made for a right handed person, notice the curve and grips on the handle, they fit a right hand good, but very hard to hold with left hand. I will post them together, and as yet they are untouched apart from a wash.

[edit]Photobucket Photos Lost[/edit][timestamp=1354949238]
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 01:48:09 AM by lillyc »

Offline Will Person

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2008, 11:41:34 PM »
Nice.   Your first two skillets are very nice.   Please,  can you get it clean enough to get the patent numbers off of the skillets.   We can then look up the patents and get more info.


Your other piece is probably newer made,  just by looking at it.   I have no info on that name either,  sorry.


Will  8-)

Jcas

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2008, 04:39:55 AM »
Quote
Nice.   Your first two skillets are very nice.   Please,  can you get it clean enough to get the patent numbers off of the skillets.   We can then look up the patents and get more info.


Your other piece is probably newer made,  just by looking at it.   I have no info on that name either,  sorry.


Will  8-)

Patent Info is

U.K 410.29Y
S.E. 1922/12913     (there is a slight chance the 3 on the end could be a zero, but i dont think so)

Jeff_Paden

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2008, 11:01:30 AM »
Holcroft is an English Manufacturer and they made (or designed) products for AGA in addition to having a large direct business.  I have some data on them in my files that I found while tracing the AGA and will look for it.  Here is a picture of my AGA pan.  There are better pictures of this type of AGA pan and other manufacturers cast iron posted on the members side of the website.  If you have 2 of the same size I would be interested in a buy/trade for one and I honestly have no idea what they are worth as you don't see many this side of the pond.  I use mine all the time.

heres some more info on Holcroft:
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/metalware/holcroft/holcroft.htm

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/subjectView.asp?ID=B10516
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 11:19:05 AM by Jeff_Paden »

Jeff_Paden

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2008, 11:17:39 AM »
Here's a marked Holcroft No. 8 with your handle style. Note yours also features the finger tab style found on my AGA.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 12:45:02 PM by Jeff_Paden »

Offline C. Perry Rapier

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2008, 12:17:36 PM »
MAN, I'm impressed.  ;)

Is that Skillet Hopper on it, or what.  :o :)

Jcas

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2008, 09:02:58 PM »
Thanks so much for that info, its the only thing i have been able to read about Holcroft, really unusual not to find info using the internet as a  source, but i guess i did  thats what led me to this board.

Jeff your holcroft/Aga pieces are superb. Can't wait to clean mine up, i haven't touched them as i am new to this and don't want to do the wrong thing with them,  i can see how getting one nice unusual piece can get you well and truly hooked.

As for the handles, are you of the opinion that they are designed as a  right handed pan? very uncomfortable to try and hold with left hand.

What method would you recommend for cleaning? the black  on them is so thick it is almost like a plastic coating,

Jeff_Paden

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2008, 11:39:17 PM »
I personally cleaned mine in a 32 gallon bucket using 2 containers of 100% lye to around 26 gallons of water. It is very important to add the lye to the water and NOT add the water to the lye as this stuff is volitile if you do that. This is very caustic and must be carefully done.  I am no expert but there are plenty of links in the cleaning section.  I bought my lye at Loew's I'll get the name from a spare bottle I have.  You could use a smaller container but MUST use protective goggles and gloves.  After the process you carefully remove them from the lye and rinse the skillets off in fresh water and they're ok to handle.  Remove loose debris with a brass brush and dry thouroghly.  I then pop them in the oven at 200 degrees for about 30 inutes and then remove them and apply olive oil, allow it to soak in for a few minutes, wipe them down and then back in the oven for another 15 minutes then wipe them down again and turn the oven up to 400 for about 30 minutes but be sure you have a vented stove as this can smoke up your house! after 30 minutes just turn the stove off and let them cool completely 1hr+ and then wipe them down again.  This is just how I do it and it seems to work ok.  PS Don't use this anywhere kids or others have access or could accidently touch the water/lye solution.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 11:40:39 PM by Jeff_Paden »

jeffrideal

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 12:09:24 PM »
I just scanned the european ebay sites and not one have any of this CI listed.  Very cool handles and pans all together.  

Jeff_Paden

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 02:48:28 PM »
Regarding the other piece here is some possible help...

Robert Welch - 50 years of design in a Cotswold workshop
 In his final year at the Royal College of Art, London, Robert Welch designed a vegetable dish which attracted the attention of the only stainless steel tableware manufacturer in Britain, the Midlands firm of J&J Wiggin. On graduation, Robert became their first consultant designer. This precipitated events by which Robert Welch found a workshop and studio premises conveniently near the Midlands: on the top floor of the Silk Mill, Chipping Campden, in the Cotswolds.
  
Almost from the outset, Robert Welch worked with his assistant and talented Silversmith John Limbrey who hand made all the commissioned and ecclesiastical silverware and the majority of the models and production drawings for machine design. In Robert Welch’s words: “There can be no doubt that two people working in close harmony and understanding can more than match the creative output of larger units. We observe a steady disciplined use of time, regular hours through success and failure. Looking out of the windows there are fine views of Chipping Campden and the surrounding countryside and the rhythm of work continues to flow.”

Robert Welch worked in The Silk Mill throughout his career, making commissioned silver and designing for mass production. As he said: “I believe that it is possible to blend the best of two worlds, the old and the new, the unique and the multiple, hand and machine, to the mutual advantage of each other”

Robert Welch’s philosophy of balancing the individuality of the maker against the rationality of the machine enriched each area to a very important degree, helping to create products with a warmth of feeling and tactility that people enjoyed using, whether it was ceremonial silver or a kitchen knife.

50 years later, Robert Welch Designs is still a family company, maintaining the values of their founder: designing and developing products utilising traditional craft methods, machine production and a deep understanding of appropriate functional form.

To celebrate our half century we have commissioned fifty pieces of Robert Welch’s famous design The ‘Campden’ Candelabrum to be hand made in silver. Click here for more information.

http://www.welch.co.uk/news.asp?instanceid=352069

The Old Hall Works of the Former J&J Wiggin Limited

Walsall has a centuries-old tradition of forging metal lorimery for horse harness and during Victorian times became the World’s near-monopoly supplier of such essential tackle. With the onset of the twentieth-century, road transport technology was revolutionized whilst most of Europe’s draught horses perished in the mud of Flanders, together with the continent’s key men. Walsall went into a sudden and steep decline from which it has never recovered.  But Staffordshire at large had another ancient tradition: The manufacture of luxury consumer durables for the elite classes. Such included enameled vinegarettes, crystal glass, china, decorated jasperware, black japan, silk, dress shoes, hunting jackets, flush lavatories and a plethora of other Bond Street exotica, including proverbially if more prosaically, the kitchen sink.  Even into the twentieth century strange synergies could crystallize.

James Thomas Wiggin and his son James Enoch lived in a row of eight terraced houses next to the former Free Methodist Chapel in Revival Street, Bloxwich. For some years the chapel had functioned as the local Salvation Army Mission Hall.

In 1893 the two James’s established the firm of J&J Wiggin to make hand-forged buckle tongs in their Bloxwich homes. The capital assets comprised a set of hammers, an anvil and a coke-fired hearth.

As the business grew, James Thomas’s four other sons joined the firm and in 1901 it became necessary to expand next door into the now-unoccupied old Mission Hall: The premises that was to give the company a name of world renown.

J&J Wiggin diversified into curb-chain making and nickel and brass casting. By 1904 thirty people were employed. In 1913 Wiggin acquired the nearby drop-forge works of V Broadhurst and Company that made bridle bits and stirrups. The Broadhurst arm later changed to making pipe flanges and was still functional in 1960.

It was also in 1913, in the Yorkshire town of Sheffield some seventy miles North of Walsall, that the metallurgist Harry Brierley invented a remarkable chrome-iron alloy that would not rust or tarnish and was immune to much other chemical attack. He called his creation stainless steel though it was initially marketed as “Staybrite”.

The First World War interrupted normal evolutions when, in common with all other British factories the works was greatly expanded and re-tooled to make arms and ammunition. It was in 1914 that the chapel and houses were quickly demolished and the current sheds and offices erected.

In 1920 normal service resumed with the manufacture of chromium-plated brass bathroom fittings. The plated brass was soon replaced with “Staybrite”. For the first time the firm used the “Old Hall” trademark to market this material. The eclipse of the horse necessitated further changes in the product range. The manufacture of roller skates was entered to cater to the new craze, and windscreen frames were made for Ford and Standard cars.

In 1928 a decisive event occurred. William Wiggin was by now in charge and had just celebrated twenty-five years of marriage to Nellie. The couple had received numerous presents of silver tableware, but Nellie felt that the expense of post-war service made this ( so to say ) a white elephant, in view of the continuous polishing required in the sulfurous Black Country atmosphere. She suggested to her husband that they make tableware of stainless steel. Experiments were put in hand. The first such product to go on sale was a toast rack, and then in 1930 the World’s first stainless steel teapot was born.

In 1934 The Daily Mail newspaper sponsored the Ideal Home Exhibition at Olympia in Kensington, West London. The Sheffield steelmakers Thomas Firth and John Brown occupied a part of the exhibition space they called “Staybrite City”. Wiggins sub-let part of this area to exhibit their “Old Hall” range of stainless steel tableware which was very well received and Dr WH Hatfield, Head of Research at Firth Brown, commissioned Harold Stabler to design a range of tea and coffee services for Wiggins.

During World War Two the Wiggin works re-tooled to make chains for The Royal Navy, but in 1945 the growing range of Old Hall hollowware resumed its rapid expansion.

In the 1950’s and 1960’s, Robert Welch was commissioned to design a toast rack, dishes and cutlery in the modern idiom. He won several awards for his Old Hall work and the pieces are now collectors’ favorites. In 1958 Wiggins won the contract to outfit the new P&O liner “Oriana” with Welch-designed hollowware. By then five hundred people crowded the small factory on the site of the old mission hall.

The stainless steel tableware seemed to last perpetually and had replaced silver as the usual form of wedding-present hollowware. J&J Wiggin was now the largest hollowware maker in the World.

Wiggins floated as a public-limited company in 1960 and its acquisition of The Cheltenham Tool Company in 1967 added “Lifespan” stainless steel cutlery to the product range. In 1968 it bought The Bridge Crystal Glass Company.

In 1970, Old Hall was itself absorbed into the Prestige Group of domestic metalware companies. But during the Seventies a decline in demand for UK hollowware, and indeed other British products, accelerated. British industrial concerns agglomerated into ever larger defensive combines in a largely futile attempt to resist foreign predatory behavior but in a shrinking world other governments were quick to assist native enterprise that promised to put an end to British competition once and for all.

By now, the American firm Oneida was the largest company in the field and sought to eliminate its World competition, by whatever means. In 1982 it purchased J&J Wiggin and on 29th June 1984, Oneida closed The Old Hall Works.

The surviving scion of the Wiggin dynasty lives in nearby Levedale and is president of a flourishing Old Hall collectors’ society. Members exchange pieces, and in addition there is no difficulty in purchasing Old Hall ware on the Internet.

The semi-derelict factory now accommodates the intermittently-active Tudor pine furniture workshop and a working automobile repair shop. A small annex warehouses spares for a discontinued commercial vehicle, the Ford Transit van. And the rest is a roost for feral pigeons.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7382107@N04/1707000792/

ROBERT WELCH
Robert Welch was one of the most influential British metalwork designers of the mid twentieth century and is best known for his stainless steel tableware and work in cast iron.  “When I lived at home with my parents we drank tea from a stainless steel teapot with Old Hall stamped on the base and I have recently had the opportunity to revisit those things that I once took for granted. Robert Welch’s domestic designs have withstood the test of time to become design classics. His creative approach combining craft and mass production to bring well designed and practical objects to everyone is evident in the designs I have chosen to reissue.”

Margaret Howell Stainless Steel.  
Welch attended the Royal College of Art from 1952 and undertook scholarships in Sweden and Norway where he first discovered the exciting possibilities of stainless steel as a material for tableware and cutlery.  Following his graduation Welch became consultant designer for J & J Wiggin in Chipping Campden, Gloucestershire and worked on design developments for the company’s Old Hall tableware brand, adding a mustard pot, a streamlined triangular tray and toast rack to the original salt and pepper set. This was followed in 1957 with the design of Welch’s Campden range, a collection of satin finish stainless steel tableware including coffee and milk pots with tapered rosewood handles, a candlestick and condiment set.  In 1958 Welch designed a vast tea service, Oriana, commissioned by P&O cruises for the liner SS Oriana with special design features adapted for use at sea. In 1962 Welch designed Alverston, a domestic tea service which included a range of cutlery intended for everyday use, later to become known as RW No1. With its distinctive tapered design the range of stainless steel cutlery was awarded a Design Centre Award in 1965.

Cast Iron
Robert Welch’s interest in cast iron began in 1960 when he was commissioned by Black County Foundry as a consultant designer. Welch soon realised the commercial benefits of designing in cast iron rather than silver as he was able to make his designs available to a much wider audience. Welch developed a range of tableware including various enamelled candlesticks, including the Hobart, produced in three sizes. Originally available in black and white the design has been reissued in a limited edition warm red.
A range of found and reissued tableware in stainless steel and cast iron is available from Margaret Howell stores at Wigmore Street and Richmond.
http://www.margarethowell.co.uk/house_rw.html

(Photo is The Old Hall Works of the Former J&J Wiggin Limited)
Location: The Intersection of Revival and Woodall Streets
Bloxwich, Staffordshire, England, UK
Date of Photograph: am 4 September 2007
OS Grid Reference: SK000019
Co-ordinates: 52:36:56N: 2:00:04W
Elevation: 164 meters


« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 02:52:07 PM by Jeff_Paden »

Jcas

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 11:41:33 PM »
thanks for that info Jeff, its nice to know what is behind some of these pieces, the robert Welch piece is absolutely beautifull to use, not a thing sticks , and i use it a lot.

Meanwhile i am in the process of cleaning the Holcrofts, can't wait to try them out either.....  :) :)


Jeff_Paden

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 11:43:58 PM »
You're quite welcome. :) I love tracking these things down... :D

Jcas

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Re: Have You Heard Of This?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 01:25:54 AM »
Quote
Julie,
This is over two pounds difference between identical skillets!!! How large are these skillets? What is the total weight of one skillet? Are the Holcroft markings the same on both skillets (looking for evidence that indicates the skillets were made at about the same time)?
                                                                          Roy Meadows

One skillet weighs 7,1/2pound the other wieghs 6pound, that is on an old set of scales, i might also take them to the local post office for accurate weighing.
Right from the first time i picked them up i could tell there was a difference.. I'm not sure of the correct way to measure them but from outside diameter edge to edge is 11,3/4inches.

They are both marked Holcroft 10,

I have only cleaned this one so far. A few streaks, not too sure what causes that, maybe you experts will know.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 11:56:00 PM by Sandy_Glenn »