Author Topic: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger  (Read 10263 times)

Offline Tommy Harris

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2016, 09:29:49 AM »
Oh snap.  I didn't even notice that one.  Oops.   I'll have to check it out this evening and see if I can scrub them a bit more.   My 12 year old is home today, so he is keep f an eye on the setup. I'm still a bit sketchy on running it while nobody is there.  Hopefully it gets a couple 3 hour cycles today and cleans up.    Fingers crossed.   

Offline Jeff Friend

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2016, 09:55:51 AM »
Tommy,

If you are hanging a skillet from the handle, I cannot see how a bubble would form.  The gas that is formed at the cathode is hydrogen, and would not cause corrosion.  It looks like the black stuff is ferrous iron.  Ferrous iron rubs off under running water.  The red rust is a mixture of different iron oxides, but the ferric oxidation state is what gives the red color.  Since you had the pan in the electro system for a while, the red rust may have been converted to the black, ferrous form, and that is what you are seeing.  I suspect that the black ferrous iron oxide will be removed as you clean the pan.

In theory, you can leave a pan in the electrolyte solution with the charger attached to the anode and cathode and nothing will happen.  The diodes in the charger should prevent current from flowing the wrong way.  As a precaution, I disconnect the charger from the pan when the charger is not running.  You can also leave a pan in the electrolyte solution and not have rust form as long as the pH of your solution is sufficiently alkaline (the pH is around 10).  If you used either sodium carbonate or sodium hydroxide to make the electrolyte solution, the pH will be high enough to make the pan "passive" meaning that the iron will not participate in oxidation/reduction reactions.  I wrote an article for the newsletter that went into detail on this topic.

As far as putting copper wiring, or other metals that are not sufficiently corrosion resistant, into the electrolyte solution, they are also made passive by the high pH.  The problem happens when you use copper to connect the anode to the charger (the positive connection) and the current is flowing.  With the current flowing, the high pH is not enough to prevent electrons from being stripped out of the metal, and the metal corrodes.  You can safely use copper and other metals on the piece you are cleaning (the cathode).

One final thought - it is important to have a piece of cookware fully submerged in the solution.  A line will develop at the interface between the solution and the air that is about impossible to remove.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 08:47:23 PM by Jeff_Friend »
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Offline Tommy Harris

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2016, 10:06:28 AM »
Thank you so much for that info.   There is no exposed copper in the solution.   The only copper being used is the romex wire connecting the two pieces of sheet metal together.   Both pieces are out of the solution.  The wire I use to hang the skillets is welding wire.  It is not copper but I can see that it does kind of look like it.  I used arm and hammer washing soda for the solution.   About 16 gallons of water and 1 cup of soda.  When I turn the charger off and leave the pieces in there, I disconnect the jumper cables from the piece and the plates.      I am hoping to source a larger container some time this week now that I have a manual charger and coming up with a better system.   Thanks again guys for all the info.   

Offline Tommy Harris

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2016, 10:18:15 PM »
I went back and looked at the mark on the top that Cheryl thought was an air bubble.  I totally spaced that when I took that picture it was actually a.weird reflection and not even a mark on the skillet.    I double checked the skillet tonight.    The dark mark on the bottom of the inside was able to be scrubbed most of the way off.  :)    The pieces are getting another 3 hours tonight, and several hours tomorrow and then hopefully coming in for some cleaning and seasoning tomorrow evening.   Thanks again guys for all the help.  It is very much appreciated.   

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2016, 10:38:51 PM »
This is why I do not submerge Copper in the electrolyte...

Theory is one thing, what really happens can be another.  :)

A jumper clamp that had stranded copper insulated wire attached to it, used to carry NEGATIVE current (cathode).  (and no, there was/is no copper in these pony clamps). I did not want my iron to become copper plated... ::)



« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 10:41:22 PM by lillyc »

Offline Tommy Harris

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2016, 07:00:56 AM »
So, what happened?    I don't know all the science of this quite yet.  So does copper become corrosive?

Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2016, 10:18:14 AM »
The grind marks on each clip above show the original on left, and newly copperplated on right (after using as a jumper).

I grabbed the Dremel with a grinding stone and tested each, to prove that the original clip on left, showed no copper underneath.

The clip on right showed the original metal underneath after the copper transferred to it.

In addition, my research showed that many different metals can be cleaned using electrolysis... HOWEVER, many types of metal require a different chemical composition in the electrolyte. Washing Soda (sodium carbonate), is fine for steel and cast iron, but copper, silver, and other metals require different chemical components in the solutuion.  (I also collect copper items, and entertained the notion of constructing an electrolysis to clean those items.... changed my mind, and continue to restore them by hand).

I also witnessed the degradation of exposed stranded copper wiring after submersion in the electrolyte.  Also learned not to use galvanized coated steel in the electro (that zinc dissolves off)... Confirmed thru technical journals. 

The clip above, on the right, was connected using stranded copper wire (jacketed except the very end where connection was).

Common sense says that copper migrated there, and it didn't do it by staying in solid form... :)






Offline Cheryl Watson

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2016, 10:21:41 AM »
Great resource here:

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/index.htm

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/ConservationManual.pdf

Since we are not dealing with a Marine environment, usually just skip the beginning steps dealing with Salt Water issues... :)

Offline Tommy Harris

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Re: Electrolysis setup with automatic charger
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2016, 10:28:23 AM »
Ahhhh.  That makes sense.   Thank you.  :)   I'll read the articles tonight.