Griswold small logo #4 with early handle

[Craig Allison]

It doesn't seem like a tough target but so far I've not been able to prove it's existence.
The Blue book doesn't list it but I have to ask why would they skip the early handle and then return with the late and grooved handles. Makes no sense.
A friend who knows alot more than I about collecting says that the blue and red books only show what the authors have come in contact with. Suggests the same thing that I've been thinking. No reason to skip that version.

What do y'all say?

[Neal Birkett]

Here's a reason that small logo 4s with early handle might have been skipped.  There are several factors at play in this hypothesis, so it might seem complicated, but life gets that way. 

4s were not as big of seller as 3s and 5s.  Also, the time period for the early handle skillets were the war years, and if they did not have a need for them (due to low sales or any other reason), they just would not cast more.  So if Griswold had a pile of large logo smooth bottom 4s cast up in the late 1930s (recall "poor seller"), it is conceivable they might not need more until after 1945, at which time the "late" handle was in use.  There does seem to be quite a few smooth bottom block logos relative to the heat ring skillets. 

That said, I will now start watching for small logo, early handle 4s.  Might be as rare as the 10 grooved handle.

[Craig Allison]

Well thanks, Neal.
Interesting viewpoint. But I'll keep looking because it is the one blank spot in my #4 collection.
BTW, I'd rather cook in a #4 than a #3 anytime.

[Neal Birkett]

Interesting.  My most common item to cook in iron is 2 eggs, so, well, I use a 2. 

Nonetheless, I will watch for the small logo early handle 4.  Maybe other members can contribute if they have, or have not, seen such an item.

[Jim Fuchs]

Agree with Neal. The War years would surely be a factor, as the W.P.B. limited the manufacturing of domestic cookware. In the early 1940's (1942, about 35% of Griswold production was dedicated to the War effort, and in 1943, that went up to 85%.)  In 1942-43 Griswold was limited to offering but eight total pieces to the consumer, and skillets were only offered in #3, #6, and #8.
              This was an older posted regarding W.P.B. and Griswold production then. Not certain how long the Act stayed in effect. Goes without saying it would be virtually impossible to show all possible variations as only items documented/shared and sent to the writers can be shown at the time of publishing, as mentioned.   

         https://www.griswoldandwagner.com/forum/index.php?topic=10315.msg91481#msg91481

[Neal Birkett]

Actually, I recently saw this about wartime manufacturing.

One gets the distinct impression that no one and no company wanted to get called out for not supporting the war effort, plus there was the related legislation.

PS this document may need to reposted in another category.  I am not sure which.  Please move it there if so.

[Jim Fuchs]

Good stuff....agreed we should keep all of this data together. The paper I posted was something I owned, but that and all other original paper re: Griswold, and many others has moved on to another caretaker. Thank you for posting that Neal... that is one I have not seen.

[Neal Birkett]

My pleasure.

I wish I better understood the nuances of sharing the old documents.  At this date, many of these old documents would not be covered by copyright, but there seems to be a wealth of information that is privately held, and, for perhaps various reasons, do not get submitted to WAGS or other repositories, whether for members or the general public. 

I know that sometimes there is an investment in these, but it seems like there is a barrier higher than just having to pay a significant amount for it.

I recently had a discussion with someone who was trying to collect such material and post it.  Unfortunately, that discussion got snarky.  Apparently, I had nothing to offer in the way of resources or actual documents, only entities or contacts this person was already aware of (and claimed to be be "friends" with, or in some cases, had negative opinions of because of not being able to access such documents).  So much for trying to respond with potential intel. 

[Jim Fuchs]

From what I have observed, plenty of held documents have been posted from our members for our data base. When offering and posting, it at times gets met with indifference, or certainly appears that way ( have witnessed that especially on social media sites, which I left some time ago). The other thing that many "paper" collectors find insulting is what appears to be the "entitlement" mentality. The way I look at it, is it is their choice what to do what they feel best , whether scanning posting, or keeping the collection intact and passing it on...again that is their decision. I do understand how sometimes those discussions can go "South", but don't think the collectors of such materials expect anything in return when giving, other than  a thank you, which is rare these days. Thankfully some WAGS members do just that. As in any hobby, plenty of opinions as to what someone should do with their items . 

[Neal Birkett]

Thanks, agree that it is the owner's choice.  That said, a lot of understanding might be in such documents, and I personally appreciate those documents in the WAGS files. 

But sometimes, information that is not public becomes lost to the future.